Immigrants : Which party has done more for them?

chagla

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Aug 22, 2020
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Interesting question I often hear from few folks with immigrant origin. They will refer to the general amnesty that happened few decades ago. They will also accuse democrats of "using" immigrants without doing much for them. In their eyes, that amnesty was all republicans needed to do to earn loyalty.

Of course, they conveniently forget all social programs, civil rights issue that democrats fight for. This is a common attribute of a Trumper. (See this)

Let's compare, who has actually done more for immigrants.
 

yaxomoxay

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Aug 13, 2020
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I'd rather shoot myself than say who does the most for immigrants. Both are quite awful when it comes to immigrants to be honest. They are as far from actual practicality as they could be.
 

PearsonX

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I'd respond to this differently. Which states are more appealing for immigration? Blue states. Which states generally struggle with shortage of experts (at least in my field...)? Red states. Yet who are the most gung ho about visa restrictions? Red states.
 

yaxomoxay

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Aug 13, 2020
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I'd respond to this differently. Which states are more appealing for immigration? Blue states. Which states generally struggle with shortage of experts (at least in my field...)? Red states. Yet who are the most gung ho about visa restrictions? Red states.
Dunno. I am in TX and I love it!
 

PearsonX

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Dunno. I am in TX and I love it!
Texas is one of the few exceptions. Though I have to tell you I was given a choice between an institution in Texas vs an institution in East coast. It wasn't a hard choice for me at all.
 
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yaxomoxay

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Texas is one of the few exceptions. Though I have to tell you I was given a choice between an institution in Texas vs an institution in East coast. It wasn't a hard choice for me at all.
I hope you chose TX!
In all truth, it is such a personal choice which depends on so many factors it is impossible to generalize on what's the best choice. I am sure I'd go crazy in NYC for example. while some people just love it.

Coming from Europe though, I prefer cities where you can at least get to the restroom without a car.
ahahah, yeah that was the big cultural shock for me. "Let's go for a road trip", ten hours later you're still in TX.
 
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PearsonX

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I hope you chose TX!
In all truth, it is such a personal choice which depends on so many factors it is impossible to generalize on what's the best choice. I am sure I'd go crazy in NYC for example. while some people just love it.



ahahah, yeah that was the big cultural shock for me. "Let's go for a road trip", ten hours later you're still in TX.
Went with east coast and walked to work until COVID.:)
 
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yaxomoxay

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Went with east coast and walked to work until COVID.:)
You see, no way I can get COVID on my 100% solitaire commute, as anybody in the gazillion of cars around me!

However, I must say I LOVE driving in the emptiness of Texas or the South/SW in general. It's a meditative experience, it's just great (for me).
 
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yaxomoxay

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One thing I will NEVER, ever, accept is the Imperial system. For the love of God, all the Saints, and whatever you think dear, why the fuck the US doesn't switch to the MUCH EASIER, MUCH BETTER decimal system. I truly CAN'T stand measurements here. Gallon, ounces, pounds, yards, feet, and nothing correlates with nothing else. WTF. Why, God. WHY??? It's like a self-imposed punishment, and I feel that most Americans don't truly understand their own system.
I think I already mentioned that time, a long time ago, I asked at the deli counter for some ham in ounces just to hear the following reply: "we don't have ounces, only pounds." I wanted to die.
 
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PearsonX

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One thing I will NEVER, ever, accept is the Imperial system. For the love of God, all the Saints, and whatever you think dear, why the fuck the US doesn't switch to the MUCH EASIER, MUCH BETTER decimal system. I truly CAN'T stand measurements here. Gallon, ounces, pounds, yards, feet, and nothing correlates with nothing else. WTF. Why, God. WHY??? It's like a self-imposed punishment, and I feel that most Americans don't truly understand their own system.
I think I already mentioned that time, a long time ago, I asked at the deli counter for some ham in ounces just to hear the following reply: "we don't have ounces, only pounds." I wanted to die.
I don't do imperial. Even after a decade, I just don't. A lot of people gave me a "we've never seen you this passionate about anything before" response, when I gave them my schpiel on the metric system being the greatest victory of rational though, using the most vital element, water as a universal reference for temperature, volume, weight. It's just beautiful.
 
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ericgtr12

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Aug 10, 2020
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I'd rather shoot myself than say who does the most for immigrants. Both are quite awful when it comes to immigrants to be honest. They are as far from actual practicality as they could be.
Yes, when Republicans take the horrific steps of locking children in cages and separating them from their parents, it's just like Democrats.

Oh wait, it's absolutely NOTHING like Democrats. This "both sides are equally bad" used only when Republicans do horrible things is frankly bullshit.
 

yaxomoxay

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I don't do imperial. Even after a decade, I just don't. A lot of people gave me a "we've never seen you this passionate about anything before" response, when I gave them my schpiel on the metric system being the greatest victory of rational though, using the most vital element, water as a universal reference for temperature, volume, weight. It's just beautiful.
Same here. I made a point of dying without ever learning the various equations to translate from one crazy measure to another. I just refuse it. I mean, if by any miracle I learned it, I'd try to unlearn it. It's probably the only topic I don't want to learn anything about. It's insane.
 
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yaxomoxay

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Yes, when Republicans take the horrific steps of locking children in cages and separating them from their parents, it's just like Democrats.
Oh wait, it's absolutely NOTHING like Democrats. This "both sides are equally bad" used only when Republicans do horrible things is frankly bullshit.
I think you chose the wrong example here.
 

lizkat

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Aug 15, 2020
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I'd rather shoot myself than say who does the most for immigrants. Both are quite awful when it comes to immigrants to be honest. They are as far from actual practicality as they could be.
Well the critters of congress from both sides of the aisle have been good at letting under the table cheap labor into the house with a tacit wink and nod for a long time. And we the voters sure do like that cheap chicken and those cheap tomatoes, no matter which party last dropped the ball on a chance to pass comprehensive immigration reform. And we don't really care if those foods landed on our table via guest worker programs or "some other way".

So it's on us, really. Same as always. Some of us say we want immigration "reformed" and some of us know that the cost of food, daycare, office cleaning yada yada would rise and we don't have the money to pay "Americans" to do it even if some could be found to take the tasks on anyway and do them reliably.

Example: I don't know all that many people around here without a job who still know how to milk a cow or clean the equipment. It used to be something you grew up with (and yeah, ran off to college and the big city to escape). Now the farms lean more every year to consolidated operations and the remaining family farms are more into specialty salad crops or cheese production. But it would cost more to hire American dairy workers anyway --regardless of experience-- than it does to pay experienced Mexican dairy help on guest worker (or, not) visas.

Sure and the Mexican dairy help all know they're underpaid, so eventually they'll organize and then finally the guest worker programs will be expanded and will also offer higher pay... mostly because a lot of unemployed Americans have got a lot like say Saudi Arabian subjects now, they just won't do certain kinds of work -- at all, or else in a pinch but not for very long. I mean picking apples can be pretty much of a lark, for a couple days. Picking lettuce or chasing chickens in the heat and dust, not so much.

And what do our congresscritters have to say about all that? Lip service to the need for comprehensive immigration reform, and (sigh) how difficult it is to get cooperation from "the other side". It's a shell game, but American voters are not just spectators: we are a huge part of the problem.
 

Alli

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Aug 11, 2020
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Same here. I made a point of dying without ever learning the various equations to translate from one crazy measure to another. I just refuse it. I mean, if by any miracle I learned it, I'd try to unlearn it. It's probably the only topic I don't want to learn anything about. It's insane.
This!!

You walk into any store in the US and buy a 3 litre bottle of Coke. Has anyone in the history of drinking ever stopped to ask “how much is this 3 litre bottle equivalent to in ounces?” NO! You see it, you can tell it’s too much or just right for your use and from that point on you know how much 3 litres is. If we moved over everyfriggingthing that slowly and subtly, we would be using metric in no time, with no complaints, and no one the wiser.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled R v. D conversation.
 

PearsonX

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Aug 25, 2020
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There's another aspect too. Immigrant caravans from central and south America. If you guys don't know the origins of the term banana republic look it up, it's a good read... It will tell you a lot about the responsibility of the USA in destabilizing a lot of these countries. Far right always needs an image of an enemy, so having the "enemy" at the gates is very convenient for their purposes. Coming up with programs that stabilize the region would work better than a wall, but not for direct political advantage. I consider these kinds of approaches the key to America's success, and also how it could remain the "good guy" (compared to the Soviet Union), despite its geopolitical aspirations.

But I say the left is also hypocritical about the topic. Universal healthcare/socialized medicine reproducibly work. But it works in countries with very very strict immigration (see Canada). It's also a reason why it's so easy to immigrate to the USA. The nation promises nothing to you and you promise not to require government assistance.
 
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